Chad Allen Online: The Official Fan Site

KING: Janet, what's wrong with that idea? Civil unions for everybody. You want to get married, go to the church of your denomination?

PARSHALL: Well...

CALLER: I have a second comment as well if you have time for it.

KING: OK.

CALLER: And that is that somebody on your panel talked about having a phony marriage. Well, I had a phony marriage. I was married to a gay man for 27 years when I found out. He was never interested in me. He was playing around with other men. He could have introduced illness into the family. He is much happier being with men. I am much happier not having him be with me. We're both free. And it's really nobody's business what goes on between consenting adults behind closes doors.

Luckily, I found an organization called the Straight Spouse Network, which is worldwide, but based in America, to help families that have come apart because gay people were forced to marry heterosexual people, have families, and the collateral damage is (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Let me ask you this way. Janet, why is it your business?

PARSHALL: Well, I think we are all part of this government, and we all have a voice, and I think it's important that we understand in the marketplace of ideas, all ideas should be listened to. Good ideas will last and stand; bad ideas will fall under their own weight. You know, it's interesting, Larry, in this debate -- and I think it was Chad or else it was Guy who said earlier, we're going to debate this for a long time. We are. We're going to debate this until the cows come home. And there will in the final analysis be two mutually exclusive perspectives on this. One will say, hey, anything goes, don't box me in by rules, I want to do my own thing, I want to define it any way I want to. Just give me the liberty to live as I want.

And then the other world view that says, well, you know what, I do have free will and I do have choice. But I bow in submission to a loving God -- not a cosmic bully who wants to beat me to death with his rules, but a loving God who says, here's a parameter. I've made man and I've made woman and I've made the institution of marriage. And when you step outside that institution and you engage in sexual activity, you're going to get hurt. And because our God loves us unconditional, he hates it when we get hurt. And so that's what we do, we speak out and we speak the truth. And it isn't a matter of saying, well, we're the haters and we're pointing fingers.

KING: But Janet, if you choose to do it and you don't get hurt -- some people get married and do get hurt -- something is wrong with the equation?

PARSHALL: You know what? I have to tell you, Larry, that we are all sinners. The statement that was made earlier that somehow Al and I are pointing fingers at other people -- you know, Al and I got all dressed up tonight and sat here to be with you, and we came here as sinners, but we are sinners that understand that we are loved by an unconditional God.

KING: So you're sinners with more understanding than these sinners.

PARSHALL: My...

KING: You have more understanding than your fellow sinners?

PARSHALL: No...

KING: This is a panel of sinners, but two of them have more understanding than the other two?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're all sinners, but they get to get married.

KING: Well, you have more understanding than they do.

PARSHALL: Let me tell you what the difference is. Let's take another choice in behavior. Let's call it adultery. How come here in Washington, D.C., I have seen gay rights parades, but how come I haven't seen the National Association of Adulterers who come to Washington and demand all kinds of legal protections...

KING: I don't think they have a group.

PARSHALL: And if they did, you and I would be having the same discussion, because it would be another choice of sexual behavior outside the parameters of marriage. And guess what, government does have a say here. Government says that a 55-year-old teacher can't have sex or marry a 14-year-old student.

KING: But government also threw out all other adultery laws.

PARSHALL: All other adultery laws?

KING: That's right. Adultery among consenting adults, there's no such thing anymore.

PARSHALL: That's exactly right. And oh, we're so much better now. That's why one out of two marriages end in divorce.

KING: But the people decided it, Janet. Hey, what can we do? The public decided it.

PARSHALL: Or some activist judges.

KING: Activist -- I've never met an inactive judge. Most of them get up and go to work. Anyway, that's -- inactive judge would be at home sleeping.

Anyway, let's go to Anderson Cooper for the top of the hour, "360." You figure it out. What have you got coming up?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, thanks a lot. Coming up tonight on "360," at the top of the hour, racial remarks by two high- profile elected officials. We're talking of course about New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who talked about New Orleans being rebuilt as a chocolate city, and Senator Clinton, who talked about the Republican leadership in Congress, comparing them to plantation owners. We're going to talk about the fallout from the remarks, and we've also assembled a panel to take your calls. Are the comments much ado about nothing, or a perfect example of what's wrong with race relations in America -- Larry.

KING: Thanks, Anderson. We'll look forward to that. Problems everywhere. Top of the hour, "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Back with more with our outstanding panel. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Guy Padgett, before we take the next call, what do you need this for? What are you fighting for? You got a nice life. You're the former mayor. You're on the city council. What do you need to go up against this for? So that's the way it is.

PADGETT: Well, I mean, I guess the only thing I can say to that, I mean, it's never enough to simply sit back and say, good enough, let's stop now. We always have to fight for our rights, for freedom, for ourselves, for our society, for our country. And you know, it would be easy to sort of give up and sit back and go for the ride, but that's not good enough.

KING: Lexington, South Carolina, hello. CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: My comment is directed to Ms. Parshall.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: How she said that it's child abuse for gay parents to have kids. Well, my dad is actually gay, and I completely disagree with what she said. Because I have had a great childhood, and I've not missed out on anything at all. In fact, I think it's -- I can honestly say, I think it's better than what other people had. Because I've not been treated any differently, and my dad loves me so much. And it's just, you can't really comment on that if you don't know the situation. And it's no different from anything else. I mean, our whole community -- our community is really very conservative, actually. And it's kind of people disagree with me, but they don't know. And (INAUDIBLE).

KING: I think she's saying, Janet, why not walk a mile in her shoes?

PARSHALL: Well, Larry, I'll tell you what, I walked a mile in my shoes, and I know what it's like when my children have a mother and a father. Listen to what South Carolina didn't say. She didn't say she had two daddies; she said she had a homosexual father. There's a lot more I would like to ask her as a follow-up question. For example, did her dad leave the relationship? Does she live with her mom? Does she visit her dad? So in other words, is she getting the benefit of both the mother and the father?

KING: But the main thing is, she's happy.

PARSHALL: Well, we hope she's happy, but I bet something...

KING: Well, she says she's happy. Are you questioning her?

PARSHALL: I heard her say she lived in a conservative community. Why do I think she's had a lot of heated discussions with a lot of people trying to defend that which may be in her heart of hearts she (INAUDIBLE)?

KING: Maybe they're ganging up on her. Why would -- you wouldn't -- conservatives don't gang up on people? OK.

PARSHALL: Only liberals gang up on conservatives.

KING: Laguna Niguel, California. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. I just wanted to ask Mr. Mohler and Ms. Parshall, they both sound so bigoted. And since they haven't seen the movie, would they not consider opening their minds and receiving, as Judge Judy says, just receive and see if they will consider going to see the movie? Thank you. KING: I would think, Janet, or -- well, Reverend, why not go see it? I mean, why not just go see it? Just out of intellectual curiosity?

MOHLER: Well, if I had to see the movie to understand the storyline, I wouldn't have come on to speak about it. But you know, I'm going to say something that is about as countercultural as I can imagine tonight, and that is I'm actually convinced that as a Christian, there are certain things I don't need to see. And that's the reason why, as a matter of principle, I have not gone to see the movie. I wouldn't encourage anyone to go see the movie. I'm unembarrassed to say that.

I think the conversation that we're having here tonight -- and I'm honored to be with Janet Parshall, my colleague, and with Chad Allen and with Mayor Padgett -- I think you started the kind of conversation we need to have. And "Brokeback Mountain" was the catalyst. I'm happy to talk about what I know the storyline to be. But we're really not talking here tonight about cinematography. We're talking about the big questions...

KING: No, I'm not talking about cinematography. Are you, Janet, do you know the full storyline of the movie?

PARSHALL: I do. I do.

KING: All right. Do you know that it deals with heterosexual marriage much more than homosexual relationships?

PARSHALL: Right, and I also know that -- and guess what, both of those heterosexual marriages pay a big price because of the dalliances of these two men, which sort of makes my case, doesn't it?

KING: If you go see the movie, you might learn more than not seeing the movie, where you learn less.

PARSHALL: But what is it, Larry, that I -- what would be my take-away lesson? What would I have to see? For example, we heard...

(CROSSTALK)

PARSHALL: ... made earlier about star-crossed lovers. "Romeo and Juliet," "Bridges of Madison County." King Kong?" Unrequited love?

KING: Let's not see them either, right? By the way, did you see "Bridges of Madison County?"

PARSHALL: I did, and you know...

KING: Why?

PARSHALL: ... I walked away thinking, wow, the glorious joys of adultery. Didn't that relationship end well?

KING: But you learned a lot from that movie, right? PARSHALL: What, not to engage in adultery?

KING: And therefore it enhanced your (INAUDIBLE)?

PARSHALL: Not to engage in adultery.

KING: OK, Janet, let's just stay home.

We'll be right back with our -- you learn a lot that way. We'll be right back with our remaining moments. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSIE O'DONNELL: If you were to be in another country and to say, well, we're civil unionized. What does that mean? She's in the emergency room, God forbid something happened. We have a civil union, in America it's the same thing as -- you know, I understand the reluctance of people to kind of give up that word. I understand. But all the rights and protections and privileges that go with that, you know, are entitled to every American. And that's what this country is founded on, equality and human rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Chad Allen, being honest, do you ever wish you were straight? You wish you were straight?

ALLEN: There have been times in my life when I've absolutely wished that I was straight, without question. Today in my life, the acceptance of my sexuality is a beautiful gift from God that I get to share with the world, and my partner has made me happier than anything. And I think it's so important to address, because they keep coming back and saying, if you follow this path then it's going to lead to darkness; you follow this path, and it's going to lead to dangerous...

KING: Do you ever think you're doing something wrong?

ALLEN: Listen, I question myself all the time to make sure that I'm operating in the right way and the way that I want to operate in the world. And this what I've come to, again and again and again. It's been where my heart has been brought. You are whole, perfect and complete right now, exactly as you are.

KING: Do you ever wish you were straight, Guy?

PADGETT: No. No, I don't think so. I wished that kids in junior high wouldn't tease other kids about being gay. I wish that we could view one another with love and acceptance. But no, I'm happy with who I am. I'm happy with who I am, and where I'm going with my life. And I know that I'm on the right course.

KING: Reverend Mohler, do you think that tide is turning against your opinions? MOHLER: Well, I think we're watching the breakdown of norms in this society. I don't doubt that. I sense that we have a big task as Christians to articulate what is our most basic concern, and that is, Larry, that on the cross, Christ died for sinners, heterosexual and homosexual, and the only way to be made whole is in him, and that is more important than anything else I could possibly say.

KING: And, Janet, do you think you're losing this battle?

PARSHALL: No. Truth always reigns, Larry. It will be debated for a long period of time. And you know what? Chad Allen stars in a wonderful film called "End of the Spear." He plays a fellow by the name of Nate Saint, who was macheted to death by a very, very aggressive tribe in Ecuador. And you know what, Steve, his son, is now alive today. He travels with the man who macheted his father to death.

And they didn't say to the Wadoni (ph) tribe, hey, make it up, you can find your own path to God. They told them exactly how to find God, and their whole lives and their entire culture changed because of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, Chad, it's a great film, and I'm going to be happy to be seeing it.

ALLEN: Thank you very much. And I appreciate that. I couldn't agree more. Steve Saint called me today, and he said, I need you to know that I'm sitting here with Mincayani. We'll be watching you tonight. We love you. We are on your side. And I know that we have those differences, but we are walking through this together. That's where we're going to go.

KING: Great to end this program on a wonderful note. And I thank you all very much.

Tomorrow night, we'll take a look at the woman who killed her father after years of abuse. She is out of prison and on this program.

Right now, we turn things over to Anderson Cooper, the host of "AC 360." Anderson, are you prepared for tonight's regular program?

COOPER: I'm prepared tonight...

KING: I have faith in you, Anderson.

COOPER: Tonight and every night.

KING: Go get'em.

COOPER: All right, Larry, thanks very much.

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