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KING: But it's not in the Constitution. Jesus isn't in the
Constitution of the United States. So, we're going to get into laws
Guy Padgett, why do you want, I assume you want legalized marriage,
if so why do you care?
PADGETT: Well, that's an interesting assumption on your part. I, you
know, I believe that this question needs to be left up to the
people, to the municipality, to the state and I think efforts to
define marriage at a national level by mending the Constitution is
I mean the Constitution of the United States of America is here to
grant us rights. The constitutions of the states in response and in
line with that are here to grant us rights, not to prohibit us, not
to control us in that manner.
And, I think that -- I think these efforts to amend the Constitution
and to take away equal protection under the law is a mistake. Now,
having said that, I do believe that there's no one size fits all
solution for any problem and that we need to allow the sort of
flexibility that allows for local character and for local...
Would you want Casper -- would you want Casper, Wyoming to have
legal marriage between gays?
PADGETT: I wouldn't want Casper to do anything that's not right for
KING: No, would you want it?
PADGETT: I would want us to have...
KING: You're a former mayor.
PADGETT: Oh, me personally.
PADGETT: Well, you know, me personally I, you know, my partner Jason
and I have been together for over seven years now. I would like to
have some acknowledgement that our relationship is as important as
other relationships but I also would be very careful to say that I
would want us to have an open and frank discussion of our community
about that and whether or not it's right.
KING: Why would it bother you, Janet, if they had gay marriage in
PARSHALL: Well, let me pick up on something that Guy said because I
appreciated it and that is letting the voice of the people be heard,
which is why in 2004 you had eleven states that had a referendum
dealing with exactly that subject and, guess what, in all eleven
states the voters said, uh uh, marriage should be defined as one man
and one woman.
KING: And if they passed it, you'd have gone along with it right?
PARSHALL: Passed the idea of what defining marriage as one man and
KING: Gay marriage, yes.
KING: If they said one man and one man you'd have gone along because
they would have voted it that way so you would approve.
PARSHALL: Wouldn't have had much choice. Welcome to democracy,
KING: OK. All right, SO...
PARSHALL: But I have to tell you, you asked me...
KING: ...what do you have against it?
PARSHALL: What I have against it is that it's a pretend family,
Larry. Let's talk about this. You talked about the law but really
the genesis of this law, no pun intended, happens to be the Book of
Genesis. It was God himself that defined family as one man and one
union, one man, one woman in that union and everything else is a
fraudulent misrepresentation. KING: But in Genesis guys had five
PARSHALL: Yes, they sure did and guess what the Bible also said they
had a boatload of trouble. In fact, it's interesting "USA Today"
writes a piece...
KING: But still called them family.
PARSHALL: Well, that also said it was called a problem. God's plan
all along was one man and one woman and when those patriarchs
stepped outside that plan the rest of that book says they had a
whole bunch of trouble. So, it isn't about hurting me personally,
Larry. It's about hurting our culture. It's about hurting our kids.
I think when two people of the same sex get together and they decide
to use the moniker of a marriage I think it's a grotesque
misrepresentation and actually if that union decides that they want
to then adopt children because biology says they can create children
then I think what you have in many respects is state sanctioned
child abuse because you have purposely taken away either a momma or
a daddy and mom and dad are both necessary in a child's life.
KING: Would you agree that a homosexual union can raise a pretty
good child and a heterosexual union can raise a pretty bad one?
PARSHALL: I would agree that probably we need to reform the foster
care system and we need to tear down some of the encumbrances to the
adoption laws in this country but I don't think it's a good idea to
say to Johnny, guess what, two daddies are going to meet all your
needs just like a mommy and a daddy are because that's just not
KING: We'll take a break and get Chad Allen's thoughts on gay
marriage. We'll be taking your calls at the bottom of the hour, all
this in connection with "Brokeback Mountain." Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I strongly believe
that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. I am
troubled by activist judges who are defining marriage.
I have watched carefully what's happened in San Francisco where
licenses were being issued even though the law states otherwise. I
have consistently stated that I'll support law to protect marriage
between a man and a woman and obviously these events are influencing
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Chad Allen do you want the right to marry?
ALLEN: Absolutely without question. I deserve it.
KING: What about what they've said it's between a man and a woman
ALLEN: I understand that, you know, I recognize that. I've heard
their arguments a lot. I respect them fully for it but I also think
the best thing that I've heard so far came from a very conservative
Catholic father who turned to me.
He said, "I've been watching this debate and I just don't understand
if you're allowed the same rights that I'm allowed how that's going
to affect me." It isn't.
I recognize their fear. I hear it in their arguments and the only
thing I have to say is, look, I know what it's like to be a scared
13-year-old kid dealing with his sexuality, trying to hide it,
trying to fight it and winding up suicidally depressed. And I know
what it's like to fall in love and fully get to express my love.
And I know that the world will recognize that fully. It's only a
matter of time that we will be afforded the same rights. It's a
civil rights movement just like any other that's come before and
it's laying itself out just like any civil rights movement that's
KING: Reverend Mohler, do you have any objection to gay unions in
which at least when one of the partners may die the other partner
may have the full rights of what a marriage would have brought?
MOHLER: Well I think the most important thing is that we understand
that marriage is an objective reality and it's been honored that way
throughout human history I believe because God did give it to us
explicitly even in the act of creation.
When you look at the current debate over gay marriage there are all
kinds of things going on there. I fully support a federal marriage
amendment because I believe as a people, as a community, we need to
honor what marriage is.
I do believe that different arrangements are specific to marriage in
terms of such things as parental rights and responsibilities. The
covenant of marriage is honored by society and vested with certain
I do understand that in our current cultural moment there can be
other arrangements that can be put together, for instance in
hospital visitation and other things where individuals can make
decisions without regard to perhaps some issues related to marriage.
But when it comes to anything that would devalue marriage and de-
normalize marriage, I have to oppose it because I think it leads to
a lack of health in the society. I think it -- I think it mis-teaches,
Marriage not only protects the union of the man and the woman and
their children and perpetuates the human race, it's the central
molecule of our civilization. It also teaches and the fact is that
the adoption of anything like same-sex marriage or even civil unions
teaches the wrong thing about what sex and marriage and family is
KING: But visiting someone in the hospital you couldn't care about
that could you?
MOHLER: No, I raised that myself. I think there are all kinds of
issues that are thrown out there that are really false. They have
nothing to do particularly just with the institution of marriage but
with some social customs and hospital policies that I would be glad
to see revisited. But I don't want to see anything happen that would
marginalize or weaken marriage as an institution.
KING: Why then aren't you outwardly opposed to all divorce?
MOHLER: Well, I absolutely am.